CU Amiga Super CD-ROM 2/CU Amiga Magazine's Super CD-ROM 02 (1996)(EMAP Images)(GB)[!][issue 1996-04].iso/magazine/amiga_e/amigae.jan.archive/000000_nkraft_Fri, 31 Dec 93 18:12:01 PST.msg

Text File | 1994-02-17 | 19KB | 419 lines

Received: by bkhouse.cts.com (V1.16/Amiga)
    id AA00000; Fri, 31 Dec 93 18:12:01 PST
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 93 18:12:01 PST
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
X-Mailer: //\\miga Electronic Mail (AmiElm 2.253)
Organization: Argus Computing, San Diego, CA
Reply-To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Norman R. Kraft)
To:
Subject: The AmigaE Mailing List Admin FAQ (Monthly)

AMIGAE MAILING LIST FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS POSTING

Written 1/1/94.  Last update 1/1/94.

Administrative Stuff:
=====================

This file will be posted to amigae on a monthly basis. This FAQ
only covers administrative questions, not those about programming
with AmigaE.

I really haven't had time to do much more than organize the basic
question list of a programming FAQ, and it doesn't look like I'll
have time to finish that, much less compile answers, anytime soon.
If anyone out there would like to volunteer to compile and keep
the FAQ, please let me know and I'll send you the message archives
that seem to be most applicable.

Just as a reminder, there is one basic rule that is applicable to
any mailing list you may belong to:

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER SEND PERSONAL MAIL (for me or anyone else)
TO AMIGAE. The amigae address is for group discussions of the
AmigaE programming language and environment. Please keep in mind
that everything posted to AmigaE goes out to over 150 people,
many of whom pay for their email and do not appreciate receiving
someone else's personal mail. No matter how clever your response
may be, if it is to one person only please use individual email
to deliver it.

General Information:
====================

We now have over 150 members on the list.  We get a lot of quick
drop in/drop outs, but the list has been steadily growing since
its inception in May of 1993. List members are from all over the
world, with the bulk being in the U.S., Germany, and the U.K.
(though lots of other places are represented as well).

Description of the list:

I created the AmigaE mailing list in May of 1993 to serve as a
forum for those using the Amiga E programming language. The
purpose was and is to put together experts and beginners alike
for the exchange of coding ideas, source code and tools toward
the dual goals of helping the Amiga E language to grow into
maturity, and to help each of us grow into better Amiga E
programmers. In these last six months, I believe that this list
has served both of these goals well.

AmigaE was, at first, a mailing list administered by hand (by me).
It was quite time consuming, and I know that I frustrated several
users at times with my failure to find time to really address all
the many questions I get each week about the list. So those of
you who have written to me with administrative questions and
requests might better understand why this can take longer than
you would like, consider that I get over 50 messages to the
amigae-request address each week, nearly all of them requiring
a response or action. Since I have a full-time job, am also a
full-time graduate student, and administer other lists as well,
you might understand how things slowed to a crawl at times.

In the hopes of solving this problem, amigae is now a listserv
robot that can take most of this pressure off and allow me time to
actually participate in the list myself! It's been a long time
since I've had the opportunity to do that.

The amigae listserv is a mixture of my own software and some
provided by the recent release of Peti's Amiga Listserv software.
It understands most, but not all, of the commands found in the
listserv set. It certainly can handle all the important ones.
Another nice advantage of this is that finally I have fixed the
software which sets the Reply-To header in all list postings to
the list address. That might make things a bit easier for those
of you that have complained about the failure of this feature
to work on many of the list messages.

Addresses for the AmigaE Mailing List:
======================================

Much of this has changed. PLEASE READ.

1) [e-mail] - goes to everybody on the list. No
changes here.

2) [e-mail] - used to go to me, now it is
redirected to the listserv robot and expects listserv commands to
be in the message body. If the message does not have such commands
(as will probably be the case for many new subscribers who haven't
yet found out about the changes) a cheerful and helpful file will
be mailed to you.

3) [e-mail] or [e-mail] - these go to the
same mailbox, eventually. Mail to these addresses goes to me.
That's fine for chatting and responses to anything that I might
post as a member of the list, but PLEASE SEND ALL ADMINISTRATIVE
(NON-LISTSERV) MAIL TO [e-mail] (below).

4) [e-mail] - this is the correct address to
use for inquiries that cannot be solved with the listserv. If you
are having problems with your address, or have a general
administrative question about the list, send it here. DO NOT SEND
IT TO AMIGAE!

5) [e-mail] - this is the address that all
listserv commands should be sent to. The address amigae-request
is now redirected here. The commands understood by the listserv
are as follows:

HELP
      Fetches a friendly, cheerful help file about how to use
      the listserv (at least I hope its friendly and cheerful,
      or at lease helpful). This should probably be the first
      command you send to [e-mail].

LIST [address]
      Lists all mailing lists to which the given address is
      subscribed.

INDEX
      Lists all the lists available for subscription. I do run
      a few other mailing lists at this site. Most of them don't
      have much to do with computers or programming, but they
      might be interesting to some of you. It will take me a
      couple of weeks to get all the lists converted to using
      the listserv, so this command may not be all that
      illuminating for a while yet.

SUBSCRIBE [address] listname
UNSUBSCRIBE [address] listname
      This is how you join or resign from the AmigaE Mailing
      List. Please get the syntax right: the software isn't very
      forgiving. For example:

      SUBSCRIBE Joe Smith AmigaE    will *not* get you on the list.
      SUBSCRIBE [e-mail]         will get you on the list.
      SUBSCRIBE AmigaE              will also get you on the list.

FAQ listname
      Sends the "Frequently Asked Questions" (if available) for
      the indicated mailing list. For example, "FAQ AmigaE" returns
      the file you're reading now.

A listserv command must be the first word on each line in the
message. Generally, when mailing to the listserv, you can leave
the Subject: header blank, as it is ignored.

6) [e-mail] - this goes to the me again. I'm
the sysadmin, postmaster, etc, of this site.

If you need to get in touch with me, and the address you've
chosen doesn't get an immediate response, please be patient.
Sometimes it takes me a while to find the time to answer your
question properly. If all else fails, you can call my voicemail
at 619-526-0344, but it better be pretty darn important!

Bounces--Keeping Track of Where You Are:
========================================

A "bounce" is mail that is not received by the recipient, and
therefore gets returned to the sender.  If the mail is being
sent to you as part of the amigae address, the "sender" is
supposed to be set up so that such bounces go to me directly.
They shouldn't go to you, but sometimes they do. I try to
resolve these as quickly as possible.

You can help by remembering to UNSUBSCRIBE when you are about
to lose or change your account. You can always resubscribe
later. The listserv that I use allows you to UNSUBSCRIBE
from your new address, if necessary. Use the HELP command to
find out how.

Unfortunately, the single largest cause of bounces is not
dead or changed accounts, it's machines (or routing servers)
that are down or otherwise not accepting mail.  Neither
you nor I can do anything about this. Sometimes when a
machine is in one of these fits, the bounce will say that
the machine is okay but the user doesn't exist. Later,
everything will get better. It's annoying, and it's why
I don't remove list members with bounces for a week or so.

Another reason I get bounces is an account that has exceeded
its disk space allocation.  If your mailbox is full, you can
not receive any new mail.

Archives:
=========

I concatenate each month's posts into files and put them into
an FTP directory at wuarchive.wustl.edu (/pub/aminet/dev/e).
This directory also a lot of other great Amiga E stuff, so if
you haven't had a look at it yet, please do!

These message archives are put up at the end of each month
(or at least that is my often-missed goal). If you find that
the AmigaE list traffic is too much for your machine, this
can be a good way to keep up on what the list is doing. I
have not been particularly good about keeping up on these
lately, but the whole process is automated now so you might
find that the archives will be available much faster than
they have been.


Also, I have gathered together all the binaries posted in
the first three months of the list into a binary-only
archive of lha'd files that have been decoded for you and
checked to be sure that they uncompress without errors.
This file is a single lha archive containing many other
lha archives. These are in the FTP directory now, and
will shortly be joined by another file with the last
three months worth of binaries (there have been very few).
In general, I'll keep up the binary archive on a
quarterly basis, unless there are enough binaries posted
to the list to warrant an early release.

Finally, I have put together an archive of the source
postings that have appeared during the first three months
of the list. I am also in the process of creating another
with the last three months of sources (again, there
haven't been many). I must warn readers that the contents
of this archive are somewhat arbitrary. With a list
dedicated to a programming language, there is a *lot* of
code posted in varying lengths from one line to whole
programs. My initial criteria for inclusion in the source
archive was that the source be a complete module or
procedure that would compile on the first try. You'll
find that I made a few exceptions for code that looked
like it might be particularly useful, but wasn't quite
up to those standards. Each source in this archive is
complete, with the original mail headers and any prefacing
or trailing remarks.

Specific Questions About the AmigaE Mailing List:
=================================================

1.  Where can I get Amiga E?

The best place is via FTP on AmiNet:

USA (MO)     ftp.wustl.edu         128.252.135.4  pub/aminet/dev/e
USA (TX)     ftp.etsu.edu          192.43.199.20  pub/aminet/dev/e
USA (CA)     ftp.cdrom.com         192.153.46.2   pub/aminet/dev/e
Scandinavia  ftp.luth.se           130.240.18.2   pub/aminet/dev/e
Germany      ftp.uni-kl.de         131.246.9.95   pub/aminet/dev/e
Germany      ftp.uni-erlangen.de   131.188.1.43   pub/aminet/dev/e
Germany      ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de   130.149.17.7   pub/aminet/dev/e
Germany      ftp.th-darmstadt.de   130.83.55.75   pub/aminet/dev/e
Germany      ftp.uni-paderborn.de  131.234.2.32   pub/aminet/dev/e
Germany      ftp.uni-oldenburg.de  134.106.40.9   pub/aminet/dev/e
Switzerland  ftp.eunet.ch          changing       pub/aminet/dev/e
Switzerland  litamiga.epfl.ch      128.178.151.32 pub/aminet/dev/e
UK           src.doc.ic.ac.uk      146.169.2.1    pub/aminet/dev/e
Australia    splat.aarnet.edu.au   192.107.107.6  pub/aminet/dev/e


Any of these sites carry the most recent FTP-able version
of the Amiga E compiler. There are also a lot of pretty neat
Amiga E utilities and sample sources there, too, as well as
the AmigaE Mailing List archives.

2.  There is too much traffic on this list to keep up.

Yes, this has been a complaint I've heard many times, and
seems to be a problem for many people. If you haven't
been a subscriber for very long, you might want to stay
around a month or so before making a decision about
leaving the list. This is a very variable list: when it
started, there was about 300K per month in list traffic,
for the last two or three months, it has been something
more like 30K per month. There does seem to be a cyclical
nature to list traffic, revolving around school breaks,
holidays, etc., but nothing that could be used
predictively. Anyway, there are times when we get 20 or
30 messages a day, and others when we get 20 messages a
month. It might be worth staying on the list long enough
to get a really good feel for the average traffic level.

If even the average is too much, you can always get the
archives from the FTP directories, and keep up that way.
It isn't as current, but you won't miss anything. Doing
this, you can still post to the list by sending messages
to [e-mail], you just won't get any mail
from the list. Be sure to note in such messages that
you are not a list member and need a personal reply.

3.  There is too little traffic on this list -- Am I even
    on the list?

This could be caused by a down period in list traffic, or
it could be the result of problems with your address.
Stay with the list for a week or so and, if you still don't
see any messages, let me know and I'll check out your
address. I get this complaint fairly often, and it is
usually just a matter of waiting a few more days.

4.  This group is useless to me because no one wants to
    talk about the things that I want to talk about.

It seems to me that people here have been pretty helpful
on just about every topic. If your posts are not generating
the responses you desire, try restating what you have said.
If you have specific programming questions, try to post
some source with it. That makes helping you a lot easier
for all of us.

5.  This group is useless to me because the discussion is
    too technical, not technical enough, too tools oriented,
    not tools oriented enough, create-your-own-problem-here.

The level of discussion in any particular area will vary. If
it seems too technical for you, just be honest and say so!
We really do want you to benefit from using this list, and
I hope that members would be happy to talk to you at an
appropriate level. Conversely, if the discussions are not
high level enough for you, please understand that not all
of our members are professional programmers, or deeply
knowledgable about the Amiga or Amiga E. Keep track of the
other members who are at your level, and try to involve
them in your discussions, either publicly or privately.

6.  What are the posting guidelines for messages, source
    and binaries?

Okay, no one actually ever asks this question, but I wish
they did! Anyway, I wrote these last summer and here they
are:

                   Posting guidelines

1. Try to keep in mind that your posts to the list go out
to over 150 people located around the world. Many of these
pay for their email services, and international email is in
general an expensive enterprise for someone along the line,
even if not for the end user. If your posting is of a
personal nature, or is part of a discussion with just one
or two list members, consider using private email to
continue the dialog. Always be aware that what you post to
the list should be of interest to the majority of list
members.

2. Stay on topic! This list is for the discussion of Amiga E.

3. Please try to be polite in both your posts and your
responses. Flaming (though we haven't seen much here, yet),
will not be tolerated and can get a member removed from the
list in a hurry. It has no place in a forum such as this
one.

4. If you choose to reply to a list message, be sure to
trim quoted text as much as possible. Again, this is a
matter of courtesy as both members who pay for mail by the
character and those who read it over slow modem
connections do not appreciate 100 lines of quoted text for
a three line reply. (Those of us reading it over fast
connections don't appreciate it much, either.)

5. Source of less than 250 lines may be posted to the list
in plain text, and you are encouraged to do so. This makes
discussion of the source and questions about it much
easier to accomplish for other list members. Longer source,
or that which is contained in several files, should be
archived into either a lha or lzh archive, then uuencoded
and sent to the list. For really large postings, over 20K
or so, post a message on the list notifying the members
of the file's availability and mail it only to those who
show interest. Please do not post very large files to the
list without checking first to be sure that a majority of
list members want them. As another option, such files can
be put in the FTP directory dev/e at your favorite AmiNet
site. These basic ideas apply to binary files, as well.

6. Finally, remember that this list is moderated - by me.
I don't generally get involved in a heavy-handed way, but
those who consistently violate the basic rule of "be
considerate" may receive warnings from me, or even be
removed from the list. I also reserve the right to reject
any posting which is clearly not appropriate. Such a
rejection will always result in a message to the list
stating the action and the reason for doing so.


Finally:
========

Of course, if this list really isn't what you had hoped it
would be, you can unsubscribe. We'll miss you, though. If
your problem is volume or time, you might find the
archives useful. Some people don't subscribe to the list
but keep up by reading the monthly archives. These people
may also post.  If you want to read the archives regularly
without subscribing, consider sending me your address so
I can send you a monthly message letting you know when
the archives have been put up on AmiNet.

Thanks to all of you for having helped to make the AmigaE
Mailing List as fun and informative as it has been. Happy
New Year to everyone, and I wish you all health, happiness
and peace in 1994.

Norm.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The AmigaE Mailing List             Subscription requests: send a message
Administrator: Norman Kraft         containing "SUBSCRIBE [address] AmigaE"
[e-mail] or     to [e-mail].
[e-mail]              Post messages to: [e-mail]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------